Hi Will,

   Thanks much!  I'll keep that in mind for when in the future if I get 
asked about the shells.

Mike

Hi Mike-

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 02:47:28PM -0500, Mike Anderson via UW-HEP Help System wrote:
> I guess it might be a good idea to support it since - from what I
> hear at talks here - is that less and less cpu time are being
> given to people at places like CERN and FNAL and these people
> should be migrating to tier 2's for their analysis.  So these
> people used to the default there of tcsh might want to be able to
> use that?

After a quick discussion at Friday's computing meeting, I tweaked
/cms/setup/cshrc to be more in line with the bashrc. It's not 1:1
(due to lack of (t)csh support in some underlying software), but it
should be more useful to users who expect something from the csh
family.

Sridhara suggested that, rather than aim to keep cshrc and bashrc in
perfect sync, we should get them close to parity for users who
currently require (t)csh while encouraging them to move to bash.

Thanks!

-- 

o--------------------------{ Will Maier }--------------------------o
| jabber:...wcmaier@xmpp.lfod.us | email:..will.maier@hep.wisc.edu |
| office:...........608.263.9692 | cell:..............608.438.6162 |
*--------------------[ UW High Energy Physics ]--------------------*

> not in high demand and was never 100% right and therefore caused subtle
> problems.  But it is certainly something we could reconsider if there is
> demand.

I guess it might be a good idea to support it since - from what I hear at
talks here - is that less and less cpu time are being given to people at
places like CERN and FNAL and these people should be migrating to tier 2's
for their analysis.  So these people used to the default there of tcsh
might want to be able to use that?

For now I can just tell people what will mentioned or to email help and
let them know this is a bit iffy to use here at the moment.
Mike

Will Maier via UW-HEP Help System wrote:

>On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 07:32:13AM -0500, Steve Rader via UW-HEP Help System wrote:
>  
>
>>Does the above method setup the CMS computing environment
>>correctly??
>>    
>>
>
>No, but we don't maintain csh/tcsh shell initialization scripts for
>CMS (AFAIK -- Dan might have more information).
>  
>

With some effort, we could support csh/tcsh CMS environment setup.  We 
made the decision some time ago to stop supporting it, because it was 
not in high demand and was never 100% right and therefore caused subtle 
problems.  But it is certainly something we could reconsider if there is 
demand.

--Dan

Hi Mike-

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 07:45:30AM -0500, Will Maier via UW-HEP Help System wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 07:32:13AM -0500, Steve Rader via UW-HEP Help System wrote:
> > Does the above method setup the CMS computing environment
> > correctly??
> 
> No, but we don't maintain csh/tcsh shell initialization scripts for
> CMS (AFAIK -- Dan might have more information).
> 
> > If not, then we should have folks change shells by asking via
> > help@hep.wisc.edu.

Is this enough information for you? When in doubt, it seems, users
should simply contact help@hep.wisc.edu and we can change their
shell for them. In any case, they should be aware that we don't
provide tcsh or csh setup files for our CMS environment.

Thanks!

-- 

o--------------------------{ Will Maier }--------------------------o
| jabber:...wcmaier@xmpp.lfod.us | email:..will.maier@hep.wisc.edu |
| office:...........608.263.9692 | cell:..............608.438.6162 |
*--------------------[ UW High Energy Physics ]--------------------*

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 07:32:13AM -0500, Steve Rader via UW-HEP Help System wrote:
> Does the above method setup the CMS computing environment
> correctly??

No, but we don't maintain csh/tcsh shell initialization scripts for
CMS (AFAIK -- Dan might have more information).

> If not, then we should have folks change shells by asking via
> help@hep.wisc.edu.

This seems fine with me, too.

-- 

o--------------------------{ Will Maier }--------------------------o
| jabber:...wcmaier@xmpp.lfod.us | email:..will.maier@hep.wisc.edu |
| office:...........608.263.9692 | cell:..............608.438.6162 |
*--------------------[ UW High Energy Physics ]--------------------*

> > Fermilab and CERN use a defualt shell of tcsh, so I've received
 > > questions from some users about how to change their default shell
 > > here at Wisconsin from bash to what they're more used to.  Is it
 > > possible to have a flag in their .bashrc that they could set to
 > > easily change their personal default?
 > 
 > One approach would be to put the following in ~/.bash_profile (since
 > ssh creates login shells, this file is read, not ~/.bashrc):
 > 
 >     if [ -x /bin/tcsh ]; then
 >         exec /bin/tcsh
 >     fi
 > 
 > Steve or Matt may suggest a better way (or, in the end, simply ask
 > that users send such requests to help@hep.wisc.edu).

Does the above method setup the CMS computing environment correctly??

If not, then we should have folks change shells by asking via 
help@hep.wisc.edu.

steve
--

Hi Mike-

On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 05:42:39AM -0500, Mike Anderson via UW-HEP Help System wrote:
> Fermilab and CERN use a defualt shell of tcsh, so I've received
> questions from some users about how to change their default shell
> here at Wisconsin from bash to what they're more used to.  Is it
> possible to have a flag in their .bashrc that they could set to
> easily change their personal default?

One approach would be to put the following in ~/.bash_profile (since
ssh creates login shells, this file is read, not ~/.bashrc):

    if [ -x /bin/tcsh ]; then
        exec /bin/tcsh
    fi

Steve or Matt may suggest a better way (or, in the end, simply ask
that users send such requests to help@hep.wisc.edu).

Thanks!

-- 

o--------------------------{ Will Maier }--------------------------o
| jabber:...wcmaier@xmpp.lfod.us | email:..will.maier@hep.wisc.edu |
| office:...........608.263.9692 | cell:..............608.438.6162 |
*--------------------[ UW High Energy Physics ]--------------------*

Hi,

  Fermilab and CERN use a defualt shell of tcsh, so I've received
questions from some users about how to change their default shell here
at Wisconsin from bash to what they're more used to.
Is it possible to have a flag in their .bashrc that they could set to
easily change their personal default?

Mike